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PostPosted: Jan 14 2011 04:22 pm 
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Ortofon
Ortofon

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Discuss!


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PostPosted: Jan 15 2011 11:15 pm 
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Has been for years.
Once we started selling our secrets to the chinese, and not protecting the other secrets. We are quickly losing our tech advantage. Our political power is also on the decline with a weak foreign policy leader and every increasing debt.


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PostPosted: Jan 16 2011 09:35 am 
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Ortofon
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Selling our secrets? What is your source for that info?


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PostPosted: Jan 16 2011 11:00 am 
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Clinton administration sold or allowed the sale of dual use technology (Chinagate). Specifically guidance systems for space exploration rockets, which also allowed China to build ICBM. This came out a very long time ago. Also solid state fuel tech, I believe was sold to China, if memory serves me correctly. Before these, China's ability was almost non-existant. China has actively stolen ALL other known nuclear technology we have, according to FBI that recently visited as part of my work's yearly OPSEC meeting.

Many leftists believe in a multi-polar world. Thus it can only be concluded they would have no problem intentionally downgrading US power. All you have to do is read their writings, listen to their words. The media won't report it, and when someone in the media does report it, they are are demonized and dismissed as parinoid and/or crazy. Hell there is even a playbook for doing this, read "Rules for Radicals".


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PostPosted: Jan 16 2011 02:25 pm 
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Ortofon
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So you think that other global powers are intentionally removing the US as THE world power politically and economically...do you believe we are doing a pretty good job of devaluing ourselves in this regard?

I'm working on an assignment for my International Relations class, so I'm pretty much fishing for information and a more lively discussion than I'll get from the "I completely agree" sheep in my class...

8)


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PostPosted: Jan 16 2011 08:54 pm 
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This you might find interesting. It was written by a Chinese General, and an OPSEC officer listed it as suggested reading for us just after 9/11.
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/doc ... part05.htm

If you have a bit of time, also look up Cloward–Piven. Not directly related to what your looking for, but worth the read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2 ... n_strategy


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PostPosted: Jan 17 2011 10:32 am 
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Ortofon
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Thank you for the links.

How do you think the changes in the U.S.'s hegemonic status will affect the average citizen as the world transitions to multi-polarity?

What will be affected in our day to day lives?

Do you think our government can or will adapt to the changes in global political structure or do you believe, as it says in the article you sent me, that the U.S. will become a mere "common nation"?


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PostPosted: Jan 17 2011 11:26 am 
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Things can change in many ways. Lets say no one has motives domestically, then most likely your looking at a lower standard of living and higher cost. Now that lower standard of living might not be noticable unless you were to go out of the country. For example, I went to Russia this past summer. Their middle class is our lower class standard of living. Multi generations living in small apartment together, etc. Yet as we were told things were MUCH better now than under communism.

At the same time, things could go very wrong as well. Look at the rise of the Nazi's in Germany, and in many ways we are not far from a authoritarian figure being able to take over power while we cheer for him/her. One crisis can change it all. Either Repubs or Democrats could do this, or even the Progressives in either party.

Another direction can be seen in Tea Party movement (not the one portrayed in media but the one in reality). Citizen involvement in local and national politics with a emphasis on fixing the problems that parties refuse to do. We could see a return to the freedoms that we have lost, a return to individual responsibility rather than relying on the government. In essense we could return to more of our founding fathers vision which we have obvioiusly strayed very far from.

Maybe even a multiple of these with states leaving the union. Sessession isn't regarded as impossible as it may have been 5 years ago. Many states could decide to go their own way when states are finally fed up with the federal government. High debt by some states being placed on the backs of more responsible states. Immigration would be another hot issue that could cause this.

I have no way of knowing whats coming for sure. But my best guess would be at minimum some civil unrest. Hopefully nothing bigger than the LA riots, and depending on where it occurs things could get ugly.

Average citizen may not realize things have changed much, as many people are to caught up in their own lives to truely pay attention to what is occuring around them. Just imagine 10 years ago saying the government will be controlling some of Americas largest businesses, illegal wiretaps on phones (still on going), invasive pat downs and removal of shoes at airports, gov control of internet and communication, and continued attempts to control free speech on radio (fairness doctrine). I could go on, but you get the idea.


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PostPosted: Jan 18 2011 09:30 am 
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Ortofon
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So that you're saying a global shift to multi-polarity would be bad for individual economy, cause civil unrest, and remove the power from the people's hands (as much as we can argue that the people have no real power), which is the premise that our government was founded on? That U.S. hegemony on the world stage is required for our government to function the way it was intended?


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PostPosted: Jan 18 2011 09:50 am 
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not would, but could.
Its not that US hegemony is required, its the reasons why were losing hegemony that could cause the other issues. The loss of power on the world stage could bring its on issues seperately, such as higher fuel and food costs. Switching form US dollar for international trade could caues a devaluing of US dollar if gov doesn't reign it in (which it has shown not to be that interested in). In short term as in 50 years we could see more enemies wanting a piece of the US, actual conventional warfare is unlikely though. However, with a loss of power by the US, it does create a huge vacuum that would need to be filled. This could easily create many smaller wars, such as the Balkens after USSR broke up. We are already seeing the effect of this with Iran filling the Iraq power vacuum. Just since Iraq fell, Iran is very close to nuke, controls Lebanon by proxy and a good portion of Palestine. Has a strong ally in Syria, and courting Turkey. All the while suppling arms and killing American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan without real retaliation.

As for my personal view, I think we should move our troops, as many as possible, from bases around the world back home.

Also sorry if these are fragmented thoughts and tangents, just saying what crosses my mind first. I'm sure editing would work well, but ...meh


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PostPosted: Jan 20 2011 09:28 am 
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thought you might be interested in this article...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... a-china-1/


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PostPosted: Jan 22 2011 12:19 am 
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Ortofon
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Thank you!


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PostPosted: Jan 23 2011 08:50 pm 
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Vestax
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Keep up on it Pez!! <3

_________________
If life was a fairytale,
Happy endings would prevail.


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PostPosted: Jan 31 2011 11:39 am 
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http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne ... t-1.340057
This from a Israeli news site.

Power has declined just in past couple weeks. Tunisa falls, Lebanon now in the hands of Iran via Hizbullah, and now Egypt. Tunisa doesn't really play into the US loss but the other two do.


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PostPosted: Feb 21 2011 11:51 am 
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what perfect timing this thread was.


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